2004-10-14 05:36:13 UTC
line of this exchange - but first please read it.
Her actual words are "You ought to know by now that I support fascism over
socialism any day"
Thinking about it I have come to amusing conclusion that when a
Christian makes a stand that it automatically means that the government
You ought to know by now that I support fascism over socialism any day.
the current Administration seeks to be a Fascist theocracy?
making that stand.Does this mean that like the rest of the world you have recognised that
the current Administration seeks to be a Fascist theocracy?
Why is this such a serious matter? - well maybe we should see how our
forefathers saw the issue.
In Britain at the outbreak of the Second World War socialists in the
British Parliament and in the extra parliamentary membership of the Labour
Party all agreed to support a national government to conduct war agains
Nazi Germany, a fascist state.
It was as a direct result of this support that working class persons were
successfully encouraged to volunteer for the armed forces opposing Adolf
Hitler and allowed themselves to be conscripted. This then was the force
that opposed Hitler. Britain itself stood alone for some two years until
the Pearl Harbour bombing shocked America into an understanding of reality
- one wonders what it would take now, for even the vile incident of the
twin towers has failed to knock sense into some very silly heads over
there. (In fact one should remind you that the British Governemnt that
supports America in Iraq IS a Labour Government formed from a social
democratic and partially socialist party!)
In the years prior to 1939 almost the only opponents - with the exception
of the arch conservative Churchill - of fascism and its extremist form of
Nazism, were the socialists and communists. Had the line been held in
Republican Spain, it is very possible the war would never have taken
Back in England my own parents lived close to one of the markets where
there were frequent street fights between socialists and fascists. It was
the socialists that rid Britain of the Fascist and Nazi menace in its
midst. Conservatism might well have smiled approvingly on the foundation
of a British Fascist state allied to Hitler for the British Fascist leader
- Moseley - was a former Conservative Member of Parliament, and there were
many Nazi sympathisers in the British Upper Class and his former party.
The most terrifying losses in the Second World War were in the communist
State of the Soviet Union - it took the sacrifice there of up to what is
now admitted to be around fifty million people, to stem the tide and to
start the defeat of Hitler. Most were socialists
Hitler's Fascism was halted at Stalingrad in the Soviet Union and at El
Alamein in north Africa. Had it not been for the working class kids in
Montgomerys eighth Army the tide might never have turned.
Americas allies in the Second World War were predominantly based firmly in
socialism at a grass roots level. As far as the conservative forces were
concerned, from Governments to the Vatican they collapsed one after
another and succumbed - often willingly - to the power of the jackboot.
The resistance of many countries and areas had a core of socialists and
social democrats - many, many, died. You insult their memory and through
them that of your forefathers who fought as allies.
Amongst the Eoropean Protestant churches, one after another caved in to
the Nazis, the German Protestants even allowing themselves to be organised
into a Germanic, pro Nazi Church. Priests like Bonhoeffer who stood
against the Nazis were a rarity indeed. Yes there were individuals of a
level of bravery that resulted in their even being listed amongst the
Righteous of the Nations, but sadly these were all too often exceptions
When you say you prefer Fascism to socialism, you insult those who fought
alongside American GIs in the war, and often in battles and wars since.
Western Europe as a continent with a far different political structure
and culture to backward right wing America has long had large numbers of
socialists and Labour Party and social democratic voting persons in its
armies. These armies, through the NATO alliance, defended Western Europe
against any threat of being over-run by Stalinist/Communist forces
But I am afraid as Kennedy said to Americans , to really understand the
situation one had to come to Berlin. There one saw the reality of the
If you prefer Fascism to Socialism then indeed you prefer the fascistic
heirarchys of Fundamentalism. This places you firmly on the side of the
structures that produce the likes of Al Queda and Saddam Hussein. You
support the political structures led by such as the Ayatollah Khomeini
As so often you demonstrate, all too often the enemies Americans should
most fear are themselves. It has all happened before - on the other side
of the Atlantic.
In a private conversation in November 1936 Cardinal Faulhaber of Munich
and Hitler spoke together for some three hours. The Cardinal himself
recorded Hitlers words and observed:
"The Fuehrer commands the diplomatic and social forms better than a born
sovereign... Without doubt the Chancellor lives in faith in God. He
recognises Christianity as the foundation of Western culture... Not as
clear is his conception of the Catholic Church as a God-established
Following their meeting Faulhaber issued an episcopal letter to be read in
Churches throughout Bavaria calling for co-operation between Church and
state "in combating communism" provided at the same time there was respect
for the Churches Rights as laid down in the Concordat.
Catholicism has a lot to answer for, for the definition of communism by
the Right Wing neo fascist Vatican and its Fascist leaning papacy and
Curia included many we would regard rather as socialists than communists
The Vatican came closer to its senses as the war itself came closer - but
much damage had been done, the opposition to Hitler and to Fascism had
been weakened in Central Europe as it had been in Spain
The true traitors in Western Society my dear, the ones who both invoke
terrorism and weaken the ability to fight it, are such as you, not "the
socialists" as you would have it
Think again. Our friends will continue to bleed , suffer and die until
you and your ilk come to their senses.